Fact and Fiction

Thoughts about a funny old world, and what is real, and what is not. Comments are welcome, but please keep them on topic.

Sunday, March 19, 2006

Pi (update 4)

I have now added a lot more material to my A Great Big Circle web site, detailing what I have found hidden in Kate Bush's song π (Greek letter p) on her new album Aerial. My previous posts on this topic can be found (in reverse chronological order) here, here, here, and here.

I recently went on a field trip down to the Land's End area of Cornwall; this region features extensively in the hidden information in π. Whilst I was there I visited various places to check out some ideas that I had about what might be hidden in π, and this reinforced my confidence that this hidden information is the result of intelligent design by the composer (i.e. KB), rather than self-delusion by the listener (i.e. me).

People love to deride A Great Big Circle, and basically accuse me of "doing a John Nash". That's an understandable criticism, which I deal with by showing whereabouts in π there are some highly specific pieces of hidden information, which could not possibly be the result of random chance. According to good scientific practice, this can be verified by anyone else who cares to look in detail at π.

To whet your appetites, here are 2 pieces of hidden information:
  1. I predict here the precise location (a 1 metre square patch of ground) of what turned out to be an artefact built out of stones to resemble a steam locomotive. The locomotive theme is part of an extended metaphor that runs throughout π, consisting of tunnels, columns, chimneys, mine shafts, and generally anything and everything to do with sex.
  2. I predict by two independent chains of logic here and here the location (a 100 metre square patch of ground) of an object (a tin mine) that unifies many other features that one finds in π.

Back in December 2005 when I first noticed some unusual structure in π, if I had been told that there was all of this material hidden in π, I would definitely not have believed it. However, over the months I have gradually acclimatised myself, and now I start from a default position where I immediately look closely at any unusual structure in any song on Kate Bush's new album Aerial. This has been immense fun, and it has reaped amazing dividends!


At 27 March 2006 at 16:21, Anonymous balrog said...

You. Are. Crazy.

At 27 March 2006 at 16:56, Blogger Steve said...

You have just reconfirmed the reason for existence of this blog "Fact or Fiction".

Don't shoot the messenger! Because that's all I am. You could have a look at the original data (e.g. the song Pi) to see the evidence for yourself. All I am doing is saving you some time.

At 27 March 2006 at 19:26, Anonymous Chris McEvoy said...

Steve, I thought you were mad at first. But not any more.

At 27 March 2006 at 21:41, Blogger Steve said...

Assuming you now think I am sane, rather than the other way around(i.e. completely mad), was there any particular thing that brought you around to my way of thinking?

At 4 July 2006 at 17:01, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just visited the locomotive site. The ivy that had been covering the larger stones is now gone.

There's a pile of smaller rocks similar to #4 pile on the pathway between Lanyon/Timmons.

I have photos, but not a way to upload them right now.

At 4 July 2006 at 19:10, Blogger Steve said...

Excellent. You certainly chose good weather for your visit. When I was last there at the end of April I asked one of the locals about the artefact, and she said that an old man who had since died had built the artefact, and he was renowned for building eccentric objects of this sort. That means that it probably predated the conception of "Pi", so to find the (44,59) digits so conveniently juxtaposed in in the expansion of Pi, which gives you the exact offset of the artefact from the Ordnance Survey coordinate SW533385, was a bit lucky!

At 5 July 2006 at 16:18, Blogger caterpillar said...

Hi Steve,

Actually, I didn't "choose" the weather, but it certainly helps :-)

I'm planning to make a trip to Rosemergy tomorrow once I've bought a compass. There's a walk that takes me through Men-Scryfa, Boskednan, Men-an-Tol and Chun Quoit. I'm half-inclined to take a trip up Watch Croft (or was it Carn Calver? "we climbed up to the highest point ..."), but I don't have proper hiking shoes...

I'm also thinking of talking with the neighbours at the locomotive site. I find the pile of stones in the alleyway very curious, for one thing, but I'm hoping they'll have some part of the story regarding the locomotive.

I should say as well that I think there might be some doubt as to the number of stones. You count nine, but I think it could equally be counted as 8. The rightmost pile might be one or two.

I don't know if you noticed it or not, but there are more stones over to the left of the main arc. Also, over on the right of the arc, the stones seem to be pointing right at the tree there. Taken together (the island of stones to the left and the stones at the right pointing at the tree) perhaps suggests a spiral rather than a circle?

Next time I go back to visit the locomotive, I'll bring a pad to sketch out the relative positions of the stones. The photos I took don't really do that.

At 5 July 2006 at 17:28, Blogger Steve said...

You're getting hooked!

The pile of stones in the alleyway was there on my first visit on 10th December 2005, and the photographic evidence for this is in the first photo here. I haven't investigated this pile of stones, because I am not aware of any pointers to it (unlike the Locomotive artefact).

If you talk to the neighbours you will find that the wooded area containing the Locomotive artefact is actually private property; it belongs to the occupant of Lanyon. I didn't know this fact until my last visit there, but the locals seemed to be fairly relaxed about finding me there. I also warned them that there would sooner or later be others following me, and they didn't scream "foul".

The number of stones in the Locomotive artefact could be debated. I had a problem with lots of ivy and undergrowth when I counted the stones last December. I eventually concluded that knowing that it was a Locomotive was far more useful to me than knowing the exact number of stones, but I would be interested to hear other ideas.

The "stones" to the left were an ivy-covered tree stump when I looked! I guessed that they might represent an engine shed. Was I wrong there?

I also took a lot of metal tent pegs with me to probe the ground all around, and found that there are "pavements" of stones just under the surface of the ground which I mention here (see the "Detailed Description of the Artefact" section). I got the impression that it was supposed to be a miniature railway track.

At 5 July 2006 at 17:31, Blogger caterpillar said...

Hi again,

Two images. First, my shoes that are are probably not suitable for climbing:


Next, just a random 101 sighting near the locomotive site. These markings are on the footpath about 15 metres south of the entrance of Longstone cemetery. I guess they're just for road repair or for future signage erection, but I thought it was interesting that I came across them so close to the site...


Here's a close-up of stone 5, which might be pointing at something:


Without checking the high-resolution OS maps I can't tell where the stone is pointing to, or whether it's pointing at the 101 markings. It's probably nothing, although the direction seems to match my mental geography of the area.

At 5 July 2006 at 18:46, Blogger caterpillar said...

Yes, this whole thing is certainly interesting. And fun and addictive. I intended to go to the Tex Mex place up the street in time for their Early Bird menu, but that window has passed :-)

Here is a close-up of three stones I thought were particularly interesting. They look like some kind of marble; different from the other rocks at least. I noticed that there was at least one other rock of the same kind in pile 4. Later, I noticed this sort of stone being used in some walls in the locality. I suppose it's indigenous (if that's a suitable word for inanimate objects). I see nothing particularly significant, except as a mise-en-scene detail. The artifact also contains of chunks of roughly-made concrete.

I guess you could be right about the tree trunk. My method of discovery was simply to push down on the pile with my foot. I got the distinctive sound of stone grinding against stone. It may have been just "track stones" underneath it all that I detected. I'd actually completely forgotten that you'd mentioned the shed.

Looking back at the above pic one last time before I post, though, it might be significant that the three stones appear in a triangle (they appear much brighter than the other stones, so they kind of stand out). That reminds me that the pointing picture I posted earler of the 5-stone also has three triangular stones under it; the one in front of the 5 stone, and two more triangles in front of the 4-pile. I also noted that three of the stones over to the left (between stones 2 and 3, iirc) are arranged in an equilateral triangle. This photo doesn't show that very clearly, but it's very clear in natural light. I took another snap to try to capture where that triangle might be pointing (up in the sky, here. I poked around in the soil underneath with my hands, but didn't find anything. If the triangle is pointing at some point in the sky, it's possibly an homage to other neolithic structures, such as the ones at Newgrange or Dowth, but it's beyond my abilities to calculate any significance to that particular patch of sky. I'd say it was also beyond the architect of this particular structure. Still, the recurrence of triangles within and surrounding the artifact niggles a little.

Next time I visit, I'll make sure I OK it with the Lanyons if they're about.

PS If you come up with any hints pointing to the number 343 (or other powers of 7), I'd be very interested in hearing about it. I'd rather not explain why that is here though...

At 5 July 2006 at 18:56, Blogger caterpillar said...

One more thing which I've just remembered. This was related to me by a friend. I don't know where they came across it, but apparently KB is friends with someone(s) in the band Tool. Tool, in case you don't know it, have quite a few songs that reference numerology and mysticism. Their drummer (Danny Carey) in particular seems to be interested in this sort of thing and has patterned drumbeats in some songs on the Fibonacci sequence. I know this is fairly tangential, but I think it might explain to some degree Kate's interest in/practice of coded embedding messages in her songs.

At 5 July 2006 at 20:05, Blogger Steve said...

You have been busy. Let me join in with your (over)imaginative interpretative spirit.

Your "101" image entertained me in the context of your Morse code ideas in the "Bertie" comments here, because the first thing that occurred to me was "dah-dit-dah" which is "K". Read into that what you will.

Then I looked at the image of your shoes, and found myself trying to read "dahs" and "dits" off the shoe laces, but nothing unique came out of that! Lunacy! I must get out more!

As for the triangles of various sorts, any 3 objects will always fall in a triangular arrangement (unless they happen to be in a line), so I wouldn’t read too much into every triangle you see. However, the 3 stones in the pile in the driveway might be significant (and might not be!). Following the Morse code theme it would be "dah-dit-dah" (the middle stone is smaller) which is "K". Read into that what you will. I’ll bet the other rock of the same type in pile 4 of the Locomotive artefact is large, in which case you could place it near the above 3 rocks to read as "dah" which is "T", in which case the whole 3+1 rock message would read as "KT". Read into that what you will!

The "Lanyons" are actually one person, an old and unwell man, so go gently if you want to announce your presence. I would not try to disturb him myself. I was challenged by one of his neighbours, an old and very observant woman, who was the one who turned out to be a mine of information.

The number 343 is very familiar to me! You will find 434344 all over the place hidden in Pi (see my Pi website here for more details). It is the Ordnance Survey coordinate of an old tin mine at SW434344.

The Danny Carey connection sounds very interesting. I had wondered whether KB had collaborated with someone else on the numerology. Is he credited anywhere? Presumably, it would be in a coded form.

At 8 July 2006 at 17:10, Blogger caterpillar said...

Careful now Steve... posting comments about looking for hidden messages in how I tie my shoelaces might make people think you're a little crazy ;-)

I visited Men-an-tol and Lanyon Quoit yesterday. I found something quite interesting on the path to Men-an-Tol. Someone is evidently having some fun with all this. I assume that neither you nor KB are taken with acts of vandalism, so it seems that someone else has been following your site and decided to change the sign to Men-an-Tol. If KB or a friend has done this, though, there might be something significant in the deleted or remaining letters? The next sign just says 'e'. It would be a real kick if KB had somehow managed to embed Euler's equation in there somewhere...

Just a random note about Cornish hospitality here. I managed to get lost on my way back from Lanyon Quoit ended up in Zennor some time after sundow, thinking that heading in that direction would get me to a bus stop quicker. I arrived in the local pub and explained my story to the landlady. The pub's previous owner (a gent called David) was there and kindly offered to drive me back to St. Ives. I doubt he'll ever read this, but I'd just like to thank him for his kindness. I hope that the situation he talked about has a good ending...

At 8 July 2006 at 18:40, Blogger Steve said...

You would be amazed at where I have found messages hidden, so I find it hard to look at any structured entity without automatically applying my decoding tricks to it.

On 10th March 2006 I noticed the altered signpost on the way to Mên-an-Tol. It wasn't my doing! It was also before I had alerted people to the "101" embedded in "Pi", so I think it must be natural weathering rather than "Pi"-related vandalism. As for Euler's constant in the signpost over the wall to Mên-an-Tol, it's just natural weathering!

You seem to have stopped at Mên-an-Tol and the Lanyon Quoit! Why? You were less than a mile away from SW434344 where the old tin mine is, whose OS coordinate is encoded all over "Pi". You can see the tin mine from Mên-an-Tol and from the Lanyon Quoit.

I urge you to visit the tin mine. The most convenient way to approach it is on the little road/track from the south of the tin mine. But it sounds as if you are not travelling by car, so maybe that approach is not best for you.

Are there flowers in vases at the base of the tin mine chimney? If there are, then take clear photos of the flowers, so that the number and colour of each type of flower (or spray of flowers) can be determined from the photos. Count the flowers by hand if you have the patience, or if the photos are unlikely to work. Are there any natural ways of forming sets of 6 digits from the numbers of flowers? If so, can they be used to form an OS coordinate? Is there anything other than flowers there? Have fun!

Whilst you are at the tin mine reflect on the sexual metaphor of the chimney and the mine shaft. Kate likes her visual puns.

At 11 July 2006 at 23:58, Blogger Steve said...

I am now toying with the idea of making another visit to Cornwall before going to The Big Green Gathering. I don't have any specific "Aerial" things to check out, because I haven't done any code-breaking since my previous visit back at the start of May. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to revisit places in high-summer when there isn't a howling gale blowing.

At 16 July 2006 at 16:11, Blogger caterpillar said...

I've been back from exploring all these Pi-related sites in Cornwall for a while now, but I haven't followed up here. One reason is that I figure I've been more of a distraction than anything else. It looks like the only thing I've really brought to the discussion is spotting the "Pi footpath" sign. One thing I brought up was just random co-incidence: the 101 sighting outside Longstone Cemetery was, on re-examination, just a note on future road construction. I don't know though if there's any significance in the pile of stones between Lanyon/Timmons. I never went back to the site to check with the owners. The Tool connection is valid, I think, but tangential. The triangles I saw were also probably just random firings of a brain too quick to spot patterns (regardless of whether they're equilateral or not).

I'd already noted 343/434 pattern in the page describing the melody in Pi, but as I said I was wondering if you had found out anything relating to 343 or powers of 7 by itself. I don't want to get into that here, but I'm sure you can contact me via my stumbleupon account or my flickr account (now with some extra photos from Cornwall and elsewhere) if you wish. I can't see any way of contacting a fellow blogger in this forum, though.

I'm not quite sure what to make of your exhortations to examine the flowers at the base of the Tin Mine. In light of your comments over on the Bertie page about unwelcome outside interference and jokes (sorry for the cross-linking, btw), I wonder if you were just being flippant? In any event, I did visit the Mine (see flickr for photos), but didn't find a vase. There were flowers at Men-an-Tol itself, but none at the mine...

Overall, I'll just finish off by chiming in with what you said earlier about how much fun this whole things has been. I'm glad I found your site when I was thinking about holidays and I'm happy that it's given me my own little adventure to go on. I wish you good luck with your continuing research.

At 16 July 2006 at 17:18, Blogger Steve said...

You haven't been a distraction; you have gone through the same exciting journey that I went though. I found that each time I visited Cornwall on an "Aerial" field trip I filled my head with lots of ideas, and only later on did I prune them back to remove the wackier ones.

I wasn't being flippant about flowers at the tin mine. I visited there many times up to early May, and there were always several vases of flowers there, yet you say you found nothing there when you visited the tin mine recently!

I wonder what's going on. I had thought that either (1) the flowers were not related to "Aerial", and were a memorial of some kind, or (2) the flowers were related to "Aerial", and contained coded information in the way that the flowers were arranged.

If it is (1) then why would the memorial be abandoned? Usually such things are kept going by a devoted relative.

If it is (2) then why would the messages cease? I had managed to extract information from the flowers, which was coded in the number and types of flowers used. Some of this information duplicated things that I had already found in "Aerial", so it acted as a hook to draw me in further. Other information was things that I had not (and still have not) found in "Aerial".

I think the fact that there were no flowers at all there when you visited the tin mine is significant.

At 17 July 2006 at 21:02, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This crazy shit just gets worse; can't you sad mothers give it a rest. Life goes on, remember?

At 17 July 2006 at 22:30, Blogger Steve said...

I assume you haven't got anything useful to add in the way of analysis of "Pi", or more generally "Aerial". I suppose quantum mechanics (and all that) also sounds like crazy shit to the uninitiated. Would you complain about someone studying QM? No you wouldn't, because you realise that it takes some effort to acquire "the knowledge", so the uninitiated don't have anything useful to offer in a QM-discussion. The same is true of decoding what KB has hidden in "Aerial". It takes some effort to get to the point where you can see the point.

Seriously, there is a lot of very interesting structure that is "intelligently designed" into "Aerial", and it's done in a way that sets up a whole universe that is just waiting to be discovered. Visit my "Pi" website here if you want just a hint of what's to be found when you look carefully. There is lots more that I have not described on my "Pi" web site. And I am sure that there is even more that I haven't yet discovered myself.

And, yes, life goes on. Some of us are talented enough to rub our stomach and pat our head, and maybe do a few other things at the same time as well.

At 21 July 2006 at 21:42, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If this is a "Bible code" effect then people should be able to infer any other message that pleases them from the song with equal credibility. If someone can do this then publish it - if not then maybe this interpretation is correct. BTW has anyone tried contacting Kate Bush and asking her? (Apologies if these points have been made before but I'm lazy and haven't read everything :-)

At 21 July 2006 at 22:07, Blogger Steve said...

Questions like that have been asked before. Probability, statistics, and all that sort of thing are what I do in my professional life, so I know about the "Bible Code" type of traps one can fall into.

The quickest way to convince yourself that there is real rather than random structure in the music is to have a look at my "Pi" web site here.

If you don't have time for that, then I could simply tell you that it is possible to find the same piece of information encoded in several different ways, e.g. in the pitches of the notes of the music, and in the lengths of the words of the lyrics, etc. Such multiple encodings make it much less likely that I am being fooled by random coincidences.

There are examples which I haven't yet described on my web site that are even more statistically significant, where the encoding of the same piece of information is repeated many times in independent encodings.

As for contacting KB directly ... what a good idea ...

At 25 July 2006 at 18:45, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to call you mad.

But just as a ribbing.

I think what you're onto is at the very least great fun. And with what appears to be a keen mind applied, and a phenomenal source of inspiration, seems you could quite possibly be onto something substantial. For the titillation of that long-lost childhood sense of wonder, I hope so!

Power to the nutters!

At 13 August 2006 at 08:10, Blogger Steve said...

Your ribbing is taken in the spirit in which it was given! As for "titillation of that long-lost childhood sense of wonder", that is exactly what I am doing here, for the same reason that I have been doing scientific research for my whole adult life.

The only way to really convince people of the truth of what I say is to make my statistical calculations public, which prove that that the odds are very long indeed that some of the structures that I have found in "Aerial" are due to random chance alone.

The case for "intelligent design" in "Aerial" is very strong indeed.


Post a Comment

<< Home